Defending God's Image: Combating Human Trafficking Event - "Pro Dignity, No Doubt" Podcast, Episode 18

In this powerful episode, we bring you the audio recording of our recent event, "Defending God's Image: Combating Human Trafficking." We had the privilege of hosting a panel of incredible individuals who are at the forefront of the fight against human trafficking. These experts and advocates shared their personal stories, insights, and experiences, shedding light on the urgent need to combat this grave injustice. Listen in as they discuss the challenges and triumphs in this ongoing battle and offer invaluable perspectives on how the Church and the community can play a pivotal role in ending human trafficking.

Transcript

Nicole Smith: 0:00

Well, welcome to an event held hosted by dignity defense Institute's also. Yeah, ladies come on up here. Our this is kind of a panelist style discussion, where you'll be hearing from four different distinct stories from these beautiful, largely blonde ladies. Yeah, minus me, that's a hard left turn here. So anyway, welcome. We really appreciate you coming out on a Thursday night to hear these testimonies. And we really want this to be targeted and understood by the church. And for us to be activated in really meaningful ways. Man, sorry, to get this turned on. All right. Pretty good to see. All right. Well, before I introduce these ladies, and we kind of get activated and what we're here for. I want everybody to understand that we're going to hear some real common themes, our our stories are different that we're going to hear, but there's going to be some really common themes that are going to anchor everything that I want us to keep in mind. First and foremost, we often hear this term human trafficking. And it's important to note that this often kind of lessens the impact and the importance of what this really is, it's slavery. And it's not a new kind of slavery, it's the old kind of slavery, it's just rebranded and understand we're perpetuating the same idea within our culture that we can commoditize human people, we dehumanize them, and then we profit off of them. And these stories really, really will resonate as that theme, even though that they're very, very different. Also, I'd like to really drive home that the theme that you'll find here, too, is the theme number two, which is that we often advocate in silos. Injustice doesn't exist in silos. And what I mean is often over here, we deal with domestic violence, drug culture, porn, culture, trafficking, everything's all separated. But the I really what it is, they're all the same issue. They're all deeply interconnected. And that's what you'll find very common throughout these stories is that pornography, domestic violence, broken families, are all consistent themes throughout this. And really, it's all rooted in the same idea that we are not matchless image bearers of a heavenly father in possession of a measurable worse. And we need to know that any of the advocacy that we do is all it's all intertwined. The last theme that I really want to like enforce before we get into the stories, is that the church has abdicated its responsibility to drive culture to value human life, the situation that we're in is because we've abdicated our responsibility as a church. And you know why No, that is, because we're in that situation, we're the only body of people that understand that our value is derived from being the nationalist image bearers of a heavenly Father. And we have to take back that responsibility in order to make a systemic change for generations to come. Because the reality is, we can continue to meet the need of the women that are being trafficked, take them out and meet their needs. And that's a lot of what the advocacy work we do here. That's wonderful, very important things. But organizationally, what we do in dignity defense is really be the organization that is willing to discuss the ways in which we dehumanize and the way that these are issues are interconnected, and putting it back into the hands of the church, to really empower you not to educate you, to empower you to make actual change right in our backyard. Because in our western sentiment, we often believe that somehow this is a distance thing, that it's around the world somewhere else, not in our own backyard, and you will be deeply, deeply offended to know that is is very real. And these ladies here and their stories really are going to drive that home, but they also have wonderful solutions because each of them are actively taking what Satan meant for evil. And what we call is leading with empathy, taking what he meant for evil and making it right again. And so we're gonna do alphabetical order, though the ladies are not enough abetik order right here. And we're just going to start with you Christina meadows, this the this second blonde lady right here. And we're going to play a little testimonial video of her and then we're going to dive into a few questions with her. And then we're going to go down the line one lady at a time. And we're going to hear her story. We're gonna ask her a few questions. And then at the very end, we'll have a little q&a session. All right, sounds good. All right, go ahead and watch her video.

Unknown: 5:27

When I was a little girl, I had hopes and dreams, but through poverty, and a broken home, parents with addiction problems, anger and neglect, I was vulnerable to those who would prey on my innocence. At 17, I would fall victim to those who have used me as a means for their own personal gain. For years, my drug use would be a weakness for those who later demanded, I use my body to feed their pockets and their habits. I was passed from one trafficker to another. And so I wished God would please take my life. The darkness of addiction and sexual exploitation was all I could see. My hopes and dreams were shattered by evil is shady motels. Going from one man to another was all the future held for me another substance instead of food, another motel room instead of a home, and another jail cell instead of family vacations. After a brutal assault from one of my traffickers, I was able to claw my way out of the abyss of darkness, and seek help for my addiction and drugs. On my journey, I met the women of na ht, they brought the hope of the future, no matter my past, being welcomed him with open arms. They told me how God sees me. They share the love of Jesus, they inspired hope in me that I had worth and dignity. Through their love of Jesus, I was not only able to see his love, but feel it for myself. And he showed me that my past was what qualifies me for a future. They turned what the enemy meant for evil, into something that could be used for the good of God. For those who are suffering in many of the same way. Today, I'm an intervention coordinator. And I'm able to rescue women and children who are enslaved in the human trafficking industry. Through the love of nht, I am able to inspire hope for the hopeless and to bring the line of Jesus to those women who are suffering. Today, I'm free from the bondage of trafficking and addiction. If Jesus can do it for me, he can do it through me.

Nicole Smith: 8:02

And the wild thing is that that's not even scratching the surface of your testimony. I'd really like you to take just a few minutes, which I know that's really hard to condense into this idea to like get your testimony and what is it in your testimony that really you see very common perpetuated with the other ladies that you encounter in your work every day. So feel free to dive into your story and we'll we'll circle back.

Unknown: 8:37

Yes, yeah. So I do see a common theme the domestic violence, the broken home, in the porn, sexual abuse and trauma. And I don't know a lot what land along the lines is registered, but it was actually a gospel kind of game changer. That i i switched on and I realized that situation I was in in this cycle I had been stuck in originated from a family of origin. It started very early. Once that light bulb went on, and then I was able to and that they were parenting out of a place of brokenness. That was kind of a a switch for me a softening at that point yet. LCL but that broken home component that divorce battered wrecks me at 50 and the separation of the family. Every one of my father in the home and my mom. We moved in with her boyfriend she had gotten a boyfriend. There first she was a single mom and her quickly are choices of man or something that I picked up. And then with that being said, and then moving in with her boyfriend and not having my father covering anymore because my father wasn't covering did watch out, you know, asked me questions about boys, he asked me what I was doing when I was going over to my house, he was actually very protective. And you know, when, but male, older male gentlemen that were around our house, he would say things about, you know, pedophile, I didn't know what a pedophile was, but I had heard that language at a young age, and that we needed to be careful for those things. And then when he was out of the picture at 15, I was livid, I was vulnerable. And that was a game changer. I ended up getting into drugs, and boys, promiscuity because I no longer had that covering. And then, and now in that circle, older people came around. So I was hanging out with people who were 15. Demographic, but they were hanging out with older people that we're bringing into the circle. And it was in that instance, that 15 year old that I was led run through that the addiction component, drug world, hanging out and partying over at friend's house and the older crowd where the trafficking came in. And he came in with a man and a female, it was a couple that came in and preyed on my vulnerability. And saw that I had no covering saw that I could stay out later that I was an easy target. And began what it will look like for me, like trafficking. And I was in that lifestyle for 26 years. And not and he also had no idea that I was I had no education or awareness. And through that grooming process, I had walked into really accepting a position as a prostitute and thinking it was my own idea. And creating enterprise with it. Yes, a career. It was a career. Yeah, absolutely. And I was very early on, it was not a career. At first, it was a party. At first, at 15 years old, all I wanted to do hang out and wanted to party, I wanted to be around people, I had my family dynamic, I broke up. And there was a new family unit because it is a family in this industry. You know, you lose this, this family and you walk in this family and there's promises made that they're going to take care of you and you're not going to be alone, and that they love you and that they care about you and

Nicole Smith: 12:40

psychological like it's this family unit, but very distorted, absolutely upside down. But the that feeling of ties still there, right?

Unknown: 12:49

Well, because you have a you know, somewhat the rupture, that you have in your family unit, you're you have this emptiness. And it's like I want to fill it with anything and you know, drugs and wasn't working this x wasn't working these people around, though now I've got these. And it's it's not working, and I'm not feeling I'm not feeling what I'm designed to feel. Of course, I don't know the Lord at this. You know, but with that being said, I'm grasping for anything to feel me or to make me feel wanted or to make me feel love as I didn't get unit so. And then then it progressed into a business. So I wasn't I didn't get addicted overnight, it was a process of going in hanging out, you know, just smoking a little pot or just drinking, drinking a little bit and things like that, and progression into harder substance. And before I knew it, I was addicted. But it didn't happen overnight, you know, from 15 to 17. I was just hanging out and partying at 17. By 17 years old, I was addicted to hard substances. So through that grooming process of two years, and they were really intentional with me, and what that looked like and I wasn't inactive prostitution yet. And so, ya know, and it was a progression.

Nicole Smith: 14:09

Yeah, you gotta take this note, like, we did an event not too long ago, where those questions kept being like your children being snatched, and they're being put into the situation. It's actually a journey that they do it through psychologic Yeah, it's a cycle because they want you to want to be there. And so they are play the long game and people like Christine is life like these lies are so real. And so you know, how, what happened beyond that I know that there was incarceration and a very radical experience with Christ to turn things around. So

Unknown: 14:45

in going in and out of that, so it's not just sex, extra drugs, its money and its power. They're all come combined into one and so for me, as the as it progressed, it wasn't very long before it'd be came sex trafficking and drug trafficking. And then you know, in a criminal enterprise on top of sex trafficking, so we like she said, we were building an empire and in building this empire, I've got arrested several times. In and out of jails. Every charge I have, I have an extensive history, I have a page rap sheet. I'm about 100, over 100 charges in my dossier, and I am a fancy word. I know I've got a portfolio I

Nicole Smith: 15:32

like to see it

Unknown: 15:36

as a portfolio, and so you know, like where we're watching this video, I have a video on lockup RA and that's where they did, they went inside in, in the prison system and did documentaries, and, you know, they did a documentary on me, you know, is because of the violence in the in the rage and how I was, you know, that's how I was trained, I was trained by my traffickers, that it is a dog eat dog world, and, you know, I'm gonna be a pit bull. And I'm gonna do what he says, and I'm gonna take you out violently, and then I'm going to sell his drugs for him, I'm going to be his muscle for him. And you know, these things happen in a, you know, in and out of jails and institution. And then in one of those days, after I had gotten out of prison, you know, the in and out of 20 Something treatment facilities this cycle, and this is relates to the question you ask your nail this cycle that I never thought I was gonna get out of most of the women we work with, we never believed that we're ever going to be anything other than a junkie and a prostitute, a job board, and I had fully accepted that was, and that I had walked into that calling, quote, unquote, the enemy and I walked into it with in full force, and this is what I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be the best that I can be at it. And, and that's what we faced with a lot of the women that and he works with is that hopelessness that's that state of, I have no purpose. My story does not matter. I don't have worse how we're absolutely. What's

Nicole Smith: 16:58

the percentage rate of going back into trafficking?

Unknown: 17:03

While I'm probably saying, well, in HDS percentage rate?

Nicole Smith: 17:06

Well, you can't use yours.

Unknown: 17:07

I was gonna say it's not that I

Nicole Smith: 17:10

do is very, very different. Yeah. It's a really high very much. It's like 80%, right?

Unknown: 17:16

We like to it's it's two out of 10. Make it two out of 10. It may be lower today, considering the Fentanyl crisis in the US

Nicole Smith: 17:28

that yeah, and Mary will get in probably to like they you organizationally, that's what they're more oriented towards is the survival rate, right debt survivor thriver to lower it, and they do some really unique work in that, but I want to we everyone wants to know how you came to Christ. It's like very powerful story of where you were was a unique place to find Christ.

Unknown: 17:51

Absolutely. Well, so. Yeah. So I didn't grow up knowing anything about God, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, I had heard something about a trinity or three and one. I went to Vacation Bible School, one summers, you know, and we put the little felt things on the board. And that in that era, that was it. That was one year that was that's about the extent of my religious background. And I had before I went to prison in 2005, you know, I got in trouble. And I was like, Man, I'm really going to try to pray to this God, you know, God, maybe he can help me out. I even got baptized in a trough in the thing, you know, anything I could think of that the water might have some power to save me, you know, and things like that. Well, it didn't work. I tried to read the King James Version Bible. Have you ever tried? Have you read them? So I had the King James Version Bible, and I'm sitting in this cell, and I'm like,

Nicole Smith: 18:44

oh, man, the Holy Spirit doesn't want to read that either.

Unknown: 18:48

Absolutely not? Absolutely not. I don't know how anybody got anything out of that. It had to be a power of the Holy Spirit for anybody. And I understand that. Yeah. So I was like it very quickly that fell away. I went into prison, and I walked back into that survival mode. But I got out of prison. And of course, I went back into that life got with one of my traffickers got married to married to him and got locked up again. And I like to go to jail inside the jail. I like to get in trouble at all at all. avenues. So they locked me down on solitary confinement for 10 days. And this time, they gave me a new living translation Bible, who are pleased to be able to read this Bible. Oh, man, I'm gonna be in here 10 days, and I have nothing to do no books, no nothing. And they gave me a Styrofoam cup because I'm supposed to be dangerous, and a Bible. And when I prayed that prayer, and I opened that book, and I could see, I knew who God was, the scales fell off. And that so I knew who God was. I understood who Jesus was. I understood what the Spirit was the work of the Spirit. I understood that, you know, the puzzles were the original gangsters and they went harder than I ever did. Was like, oh my god Ray have had the first documented traphouse he was trapped With our kids in the trap house, you know, it was like wow. And you know, and that they were worshipping these false idols and these gods and you know, in that they stepped out on faith and that God used them in such a mighty ways and Abram could be in the lineage of Jesus, well, then God can, what has he got for me, and I know it's going to be something mighty. And then you know, Paul's running around killing Christians, man, I had never killed anybody for following Jesus. So I was gonna be good. I was gonna be good, it's gonna be okay. You know, and that was a game changer for me. And once I and, you know, spouting and all of a sudden, I had the ability not only to retain it, you know, I was reciting it, I was preaching it. I was writing, you know, of course, I didn't know that's what I was doing at the time. But I was writing sermons, you know, on forgiveness on SHAME ON JESUS on how he's fulfilling prophecies. Of course, I didn't know any of this is a church thing, because I've been there. And sitting out there and truly understanding, you know, that I God before the foundation of the world, he knew me, and he chose me. And he went to the cross for me for my sins, and that the work his righteousness was now applied to me so that he could have a place for me forever, because apart apart from him, I couldn't be holy, and I couldn't be with him. So he was going to apply his holiness. To me that was like, I was like, I'm powerful. Don't mess with me. I am the righteousness of Christ is, but it took me six years to surrender. So I came out born again, but it took me six years I was in there. And so I'm sitting out something you don't never had an experience, like being with a prostitute who all of a sudden is fountain scripture, as you're exchanging money for services, I was ruining everybody's good time. As a and every time I was getting high in the trap house, I was I was quoting the Bible, the spirit had moved in me in such a mighty way that I was like, work,

Nicole Smith: 21:56

and then we're combating the spirit.

Unknown: 21:59

It was it. That was it. So it wasn't. And then I met nhc. In I've got around some people who were like minded people who were walking out scripture. And that was the that was a game changer, for me. And in my word is knowing that I had to get around people in the church, people, not just anybody in the church, but people who were off the views, who were walking out sanctification, who were walking out scripture in their lives, and that they could disciple me into what it looks like for me to fully surrender, not just submit. Now, not just to say, I know God is good. And that's what I was doing. For those six years, I know that God is good, I know that his law is good, but really, truly surrendering to it, and allowing it to transform me was what I needed. And that's what the women of NHD did for me.

Nicole Smith: 22:45

And those relationships that put in your path. Were very powerful. They're they're very much like mother daughter, a situation here. It's been so wonderful to get to know them and get to know their mission. And the one last question I really wanted to touch on because you had such a powerful conversion story and a powerful story in general. What would you say to the body of Christ about making decisive action right here, for those that are walking your path? Would there have been something that you should you wish you would have seen before Mary?

Unknown: 23:24

Or that six years, so I did. So I got born again in 2013. And so from 2013 to 2009, I was looking for the church. In that span of six years, I was going to a church I would go and 2015 tried to to really surrender at that point. And went got help for my substance abuse issues and went to all the churches around Nashville. I was looking for the church home, I was looking for someone to show me what it looked like to walk out scripture. And I was dedicated for nine months, I tried to get involved in a church and a church home. And you know, they didn't, they didn't welcome me, they didn't take me into the you know, I was even tithing. And I didn't even know what that you know, I was doing anything I could do in order to get into these churches and do things and bring my kids with me and things but they did not really seek me out or seek to disciple me. And in that era, and, you know, I felt it fell by the wayside. And what I know is in this time, what I see different in nhc is you know, they shared a place of brokenness. Yeah, I know, a lot of people's think, you know, just because they don't have a story similar to ours, that you know, that they can't relate to us or we can't relate to them and that we're like, oh, they had such a hard life and but you know, we are broken people loving and serving and broken people. So you know, the game changer for me and in HD was when people like Mary Trump know she shared her brokenness with me. She shared her story of conversion she shared where the Lord met her who she was once before Christ, and where she is at Through Christ, and that you know, all sin is equal, and that we all fall short of the glory of God. That was a game changer for me though the women of na HD really embracing their brokenness and sharing their testimony of some really hard stuff in their lives. You know, maybe they weren't trafficked, but they had sexual abuse and trauma and physical abuse and adultery in their relationships. And they were and their children were addicts. And they were really sharing some vulnerability with me and I was like, okay, yeah, hurt

Nicole Smith: 25:30

hurt doesn't exist in silos either. Right? Yeah. You know, a lot of what we do organizationally, with dignity, defense, we have all these things are considered different. But you know, my daughter was born in distress, she has disabilities, like I've walked out a different drama like traffic. And in the church, everyone has a unique story, ability to lead with empathy. But 40 leads back to the story you're talking about is that nobody was able to meet you where you are. Because I think a lot of it's fear because they don't know what to say know how to act. And instead of letting the Holy Spirit guide and minister I think sometimes in silence, through prayer, letting God speak. I think that's a big hole in the church willingness to meet people where they are, and not

Unknown: 26:14

check off a box. Yeah, you go to church, you check off the box, I went to Bible study, I checked off the box. But did you really touch some?

Nicole Smith: 26:21

Yeah, hands and feet of Christ, we really are called to that. And through community of the people that are sitting in church pews with you, right. And so we want to step through to our next story is Rachel Timothy. And again, at the end, we'll get to ask more questions. So we'll talk but I'd love to Caleb to share her story real quick, last question.

Unknown: 27:00

Hi, my name is Rachel Timothy, and I'm a survivor of sex trafficking, beginning from age nine, and continuing well into my adult years. During those years, I battled being safe, accepting the reality of what my life had become, and even harder still finding people to believe me and to help. After years of staying silent, I finally started sharing with the lady at my local church who took my situation seriously, and began the process of fighting for me to be free. It took years even still to get safe. But despite being safe, I didn't feel free, I still felt stuck by the trauma. My name is Denise Walsh. I'm a clinical psychologist and life coach. When I first met Rachel, she was barely functioning day to day and she lived in constant fear. I remember her even saying she didn't know what her favorite color was, or really anything about who she was. She had spent years trying to simply survive, and she didn't have the brain space for anything else. Denise kept talking to me about my dreams of the future. I couldn't see a future for myself. So how could I dream? It wasn't easy in the beginning. Over time, I began to see a spark in her that wasn't there before. I started to realize that there was a lot more to Rachel than just being a trafficking survivor. And she had a purpose in this world. I wanted her to see that too. While still battling trauma, I started to see a future and a purpose for my pain. And I didn't want to let that go. Once I started trusting God with my future, it was like everything changed in that moment. I believe that there is a time to process the hurt and the trauma. But sometimes we get stuck in that season, and we need a loving nudge towards what's next. And that's exactly what stop suffering and silence does. Once Denise opened my eyes to a world outside of my trauma, I couldn't keep quiet about it. I wanted every trauma survivor to know steps this was born in June of 2022. I saw such a transformation in Rachel and her growth that we both knew that this could be beneficial for so many survivors. This ministry has seen survivors find their spark get out of abusive relationships, break addictions and begin to follow their dreams. I mean, truly, CES is probably the perfect word for this organization. Because our survivors become like sisters. Through stop suffering in silence. I've been given a chance to publicly share my story to not only raise awareness about trafficking, but also to give hope. I want people to know that trauma is not a death sentence that God can take the broken pieces and make it into something beautiful. I've been able to use my voice on our social media platforms with writing programs and our weekly podcast and with getting to mentor survivors as they continue their healing journey. It's become an extremely fulfilling ministry. But it also is incredible to get front row seats to all the miracles God is doing in these survivors and in this ministry stops. This is a nonprofit organization that is educating and raising awareness and all things trafficking and trauma related, as well as empowering those on their healing journey. Our heart's desire is to speak out against atrocities of abuse and trafficking, to empower our communities to know how to combat it, but also to create a safe space for survivors to come to be heard. believed, validated, loved, encouraged, as they do the bravest thing that they ever could do. Heal. This is stop sis.

Nicole Smith: 30:45

This is step sis. This is stop sis. This is stopped sis. This is stop, sis. This is stopped CES. A stop says this is stopped CES. This is stop CES.

Unknown: 31:03

This is stop CES.

Nicole Smith: 31:09

And I want to amend my Yeah, it was I want to amend my original statement that there would be three primary themes actually want to add a fourth is blonde. Oh my gosh, Denise being blonde to like my, like, need to dye my hair now. Well, we need to hear about your testimony as well like, like, I know it's nine years old. That sounds I have an eight year old that hits so hard. I can't believe that that was what you went through. So tell us a little bit about your journey. Yeah, so for me,

Unknown: 31:45

it started within the school system. Actually, it was when I was in the fourth grade. And that was the other fourth grade teacher. And he was also the varsity Junior High girls basketball coach. And so I was in this K through eight school, I had just moved to this town and he began to take special interest in me. He began to talk to me about sports about basketball, basketball was like my love language. At that time, I was all about athletic stuff, and especially basketball. And so he geared all of our conversations towards that. He started to get me out of class and I would go and I would sit behind his desk and we would talk about my dreams. Eventually, we started to talk about how my body could get better for basketball and get stronger. And that was when he began to touch me for the first time was right there in the school, behind his desk. Teachers would allow me to go to his classroom, and spend time with him in the middle of the school day. And so He then began the process of making me feel like I was his girlfriend in a sense. And then I needed to keep it a secret because it had gotten to the point where he didn't threaten me it was more if you tell anybody then he would be hurt, he would lose his job, he would lose his wife. And I didn't want to hurt him because I was getting special treatment. Mind you this whole time. I'm a preacher's kid. Like I was brought up in the church. I knew all about God. And I knew a lot about when you disobeyed. And with that came shame. And so my coach, he lived just a couple of houses down from me. And he tricked me one time into bringing a book to his house on the weekend. And I went to his house for the first time my parents agreed to it. And I remember the first time at his house, everything was fine. Like it was I guess normal. He gave me a tour of the house and showed me his special music room. But then we started to sneak around and like any kid I would ride my bike around town. But sometimes I would stop in at his house when he told me it was okay when his wife wasn't around. And one time he talked to me about helping him make money and getting my parents a neat Christmas gift. And the way that we could do that is if I let him take pictures of me. And I agreed to it. And we went back in his bedroom and he took pictures. And it was I still had all my clothes on. But the next time at school that we talked, he said, you know the pictures, they came back good. But I think that couldn't be better. And I didn't know what that meant. Until the next time that I was at his house. He actually showed me pictures of other kids that didn't have any clothes on. And he used God against me. And I said that this is the beautiful way that God made them. And so you're actually honoring God if you if I was going to let him take pictures of me. And so I agreed to it still, in my heart being nine years old knowing this doesn't feel right. I shook the entire time. I ended up being the one that felt shame and actually went to him later and said, I don't like how this feels. I don't think it was right. And he said well, it was your idea. My thoughts man wasn't my idea. And so the shame aspect really hit home. Eventually, one of the next times that I was at his house, he actually had his brother and his brother's wife there. And they videotaped my coach teaching me what making love means. And I was told afterwards that the Bible says that the to become one and so that I then belong to Him. And from there, it progressed, he brought in other people to his house at times, also, I would be taken out of basketball practice at times and taken to a small country house. And instead of doing basketball practice, I was literally sold at that house in just a little bedroom, and then would be taken back to practice and act like everything is fine. One of the things that I learned to do early on was dissociate. Not like I taught myself, but God blessed me with a, an ability to dissociate. And I do think it's a gift from God, it's,

Nicole Smith: 35:59

you'll see, I don't mean to interrupt the flow of that. But you'll see this is textbook manipulation. It's very common, it's almost like a, like a box set that these people sort of like buy into. And they just sort of go down the line. And so your story is so a common occurrence, which is so sad to see that, especially the manipulation of God's truth to

Unknown: 36:24

Yeah, yeah, that really makes it complicated. But I do think perpetrators are good about honing in on whatever a child likes Amen. And so they, he knew I loved God, and basketball, and those are the two things he used. But yeah, so I would dissociate. Basically, I would just go somewhere else, I couldn't remember that time, I almost lived like these two separate worlds. And so for a long time, I was able to act happy and smile and make good grades and all this stuff and be a good preacher's kid. But over time, physically, my body started to show the signs. And so I began cutting, I began having suicidal thoughts. But because of that disassociation, like, yes, it was a blessing because I wholeheartedly believe that I would not have survived that time mentally if I didn't escape somewhere else. But at the same time, I wasn't able to tell anybody, this is what's going on. And I think oftentimes, we think with kids, oh, they'll be able to tell me A to Z. This is what happened to me.

Nicole Smith: 37:29

And disassociation is also very common to Yes. And drama is just

Unknown: 37:33

not the case. And so it wasn't until my seventh grade year that I started it while I was having flashbacks. Nobody ever told me what a flashback was. I didn't know what that was. And so I started to see these little flashes, and it'd be a different man standing over me each time. And it got to the point where I knew I had been raped. And I knew the man who had done it. And so the safe place for me was to tell my friends, which is another common thing. So train your kids to know what to do in those situations as well. But so I tell my friends who tell the teacher who tell the principal who tell my parents, and I remember I rode the bus home from school that day, and I walked into my house and my mom sat me down on her bed, and she said, This is what was told to me. And I said, Yeah, she said, You're lying. And I said, No, ma'am, I'm not. And she said, Yes, you are. You're lying. And I said, No, Mom, I'm really not. And she said, Yes, you are. And I said, Fine. I'm lying. Because mind you, I still didn't fully understand that. The flashbacks. Yeah. But I knew I knew. And so she went and told my dad, she's lying. She made it up. And so then I was put in the car and taken to the house of the man who had raped me. And I had to apologize to him in his living room, and I watched him cry, as if he couldn't believe that I would say something like this about him. And from that point, I vowed, I am never going

Nicole Smith: 39:01

to get on this again, ended up in her seat. She's like, Oh, I know who this man is. I'm gonna go and find them. Yeah.

Unknown: 39:09

So but what was interesting in my situation, is by the time eighth grade came, I had moved to a different house. So I was no longer in close proximity. And I believe a big part of it was I was older, and so he lost interest in me at that point. But one of the main things that I want to make sure people know is it could be the elder in the church because he was an elder in a church. He was in a Christian quartet. It's going to be I like to say it this way. A wolf in sheep's clothing. Clothing is only going to act like a wolf to its victim. He's going to appear like a sheep to

Nicole Smith: 39:48

religion as a shroud. Yes, because we're all fallen beings. And so when they seek power, they seek shelter where the places where They can most victimize. And definitely the church,

Unknown: 40:04

unfortunately, with the shame and

Nicole Smith: 40:07

no open dialogue, and no willing to turn to the person in the pew and see what what are you going through? And how can I serve you? Or the words you're lying? How could that possibly be? Because you can never conceive the elder Jim could ever be that man, right? Because he sits in the chair and he cries, and he says, uh, we

Unknown: 40:29

see fruit, we see fruit. So you can't be doing this.

Nicole Smith: 40:32

And you can manipulate fruit too. So Oh, my goodness. Well, and I know that your story is gone beyond this trauma. And obviously, you're doing something with that through ces as well. And so I know, part of the story was disassociating. To the point where Weren't you like? 28? Weren't you a much older before you sort of?

Unknown: 40:56

Yeah, yeah. So when I was 28 years old, I was scrolling through Facebook. And I came across a post where a friend of mines daughter had painted a picture. And my friend said in the comment, thank you to my coach for staying after school with her daughter to work on the painting. And memory after memory after memory flooded my brain. And it was it was as if I knew it all along, but yet, I just hadn't allowed

Nicole Smith: 41:20

myself to go away. And that was the key that needed to open the door. Yes.

Unknown: 41:24

And I knew I needed to make sure that little girl was okay. I started to get help. I went to a counselor, and we did a anonymous tip to CPS or VCs, whatever you call it in your state. And they went into the school for my understanding, they went to him and asked him, of course, he said, No. And then they went to the little girl and they said, Has anybody ever hurt you? And she said, No. I know, in sixth grade, if anybody had asked me, has anybody ever hurt you? I would have said no,

Nicole Smith: 41:56

well, she's going through the same pattern of Yes, disassociation, it's the same thing

Unknown: 42:01

is the exact same thing. And I like to tell people, if you're wanting to know more about your child, and like whether they're safe or who they're with, ask them who makes you feel special? Who do you like to spend time with who gives you special attention, that's going to show you the heart, because with grooming, they take ownership of the heart long before they do the child's body. And so that's how you can know more of what's going on. But unfortunately, that DCS report came back, invalid or whatever. And from about two weeks after that he showed up at my house. And this is like the part where I still struggle with shame, because I hate my decisions. I hate how I handled it. But in the same sense. I know. I hadn't gotten the healing I needed to at that point. And so when he stood there in front of me, I was not 28 years old, I was a nine year old little girl still emotionally. And so when he told me things that I needed to do, I did them. And I kept it secret from my husband, I would leave at night. And it became extremely dangerous for all of us. And so that is when an elders wife from my church finally picked up on what was going on and listened to me believed me walked alongside me, drugged me to police stations, I mean, all the things. And finally, I'm free alongside you

Nicole Smith: 43:28

and build a community around solutions mostly rooted in True Holy Spirit activated Christ's relationships. And so thank you for sharing your story.

Unknown: 43:40

I was going to add just one more thing you were talking about, like the church and how, you know, maybe they miss it, or whatever. Busyness is a big one, too. Like I just feel like we're all running around like crazy. And we miss things because we have the next appointment and lack

Nicole Smith: 43:57

of the continuous relationships that really are meaningful, somehow a shell of those relationships throughout the church. That's nothing genuine. And And yeah, that word, I can never say it to them and any. So our next person on the list is Amy Pfeffer. Amy Pfeffer actually sits on our board and controls are going to take control. That's the wrong word in this audience. Our human anti human trafficking initiative and she has a very unique and powerful story as well. So just, I know it so you just dive right in and girl.

Unknown: 44:34

Okay, well, my name is Amy Pfeffer. I don't have a fancy video, but those were beautiful. Like, I loved it. As Nicole said, my name is Amy Pfeffer. I'm a life coach. I have a master's in clinical mental health counseling. I'm a nationally certified counselor. And I work with women who have come out of the sex industry along with people who suffer with, you know, anxiety, depression, anything that would be a mental health related issue. In the last decade, I've started to work with sex trafficking survivors specifically, mainly because it's a passion of mine, I grew up in the sex industry myself. My mother was in the sex industry. Both my younger sisters went into the sex industry as well. And unfortunately, my cousin passed away in the pornographic film industry in Los Angeles, we were the same age really difficult to talk about the churches. Well, I did come to know the Lord at 17 years of age. Straight out of the strip clubs, I was living with the strip club owner in multiple different families. Since the age of 13, onwards, and trying to find a church that would step in and not be anonymous, it was very difficult. I did learn to dissociate at a very young age, with all the trauma that I experienced. And like I mentioned, you know, I had lived with the strip club owner. When I came to know the Lord, and I did see a big gap in the church, but I dissociated from the shame. I just lived as though everything was really great. I didn't have a bad history or upbringing, it was almost like two different worlds, as you mentioned before, like I created a narrative or rhetoric in my mind of the positivity. And when I came to the Lord, I really felt like my family would know him too. And that somehow, my siblings would come to know him, my mother, you know, and it just never happened. And so I've been largely estranged from my family for almost 20 years at this point. I've been in the healthcare field, I moved to Nashville in 2005, I played a saxophone, I'm a vocalist, but I moved into the healthcare field, and worked in the medical side of things with a lot of medical providers, and through the hospital systems, healthcare Corporation of America premise health, we did see survivors coming through. And I'd saw a gap there as well, really, every sacred space that should be sacred unto the Lord has been infiltrated by individuals that are predators, and traffickers. And it's hard to believe, but it is true. And I would say a lot of individuals, and it's very uncomfortable to say this are like wolves in shepherds clothing, I think when there's an authoritative figure at any point in time, there's like a halo effect that happens around that individual. And that's where a lot of danger can be hidden as well. So I've spoken on panels with judges and prosecutors, other traffic survivors, I was never traffic myself, I believe that my younger sister was, at one point in time in our in our home, my mother brought in a man whose nickname was Satan. Everybody called him satan. They thought it was super cool. But unfortunately, he groomed and raped my younger sister over 40 times, I had to sit in court and testify against him and against my mother, and just having to go through that constant trauma, it was very, very difficult. But after I came to know the Lord and walked with him for a certain number of years, I received the care that I needed to I've been in therapy myself for 24 years. And I knew in the past decade that that is what I wanted to do to be able to come alongside the survivors that I was becoming an advocate for,

Nicole Smith: 48:45

because trauma is a lifelong journey, not one that you ever get to leave behind you are different, for good or for ill, too, so well and speaking to the sheep and shepherds clothing, they do hide in power and they hide in in those halos like you were talking about. And so what would you say to the church specific to that ideal of how we put Christ perfection on men and women, the church that exemplify this idea of what is perfect like Christ's perfect Christian perfect, right, and how that impacted you and your journey.

Unknown: 49:28

I would say question everything.

Nicole Smith: 49:31

I know her she does do that question every

Unknown: 49:35

question everything question everyone. From a church standpoint, if we are not occupying until he comes, if we are nine, standing in the gap for people really we're supposed to be there for widows and orphans. That's the gospel. We're supposed to cry with those who are weeping, mourn, Rejoice with those. How can we do that if we're not looking in the eyes of the people sitting next To us, it's so comforting to be in the Williamson County bubble to hide and anonymity, people need us. And I'll, I'll go a level deeper. And I you might be going here as well. There is a layer of human trafficking that most people have not heard of. And they underbelly is Satanic in nature. And it rides with satanic ritual abuse, and they are in our churches. They are sitting right next to us. They are raising their hands in worship. And they are mocking the cross. They're mocking they're hiding in their secret societies and their brotherhood networks. And they are trafficking humans that I work with on a daily basis. This happens at the government level. This happens at NASA. This happens at Disney. This is not a conspiracy theory, my friends, these people are being trafficked around us every day, and they sit in our churches and they have no one to talk to, because they're not being pursued in relationship. And that's really where the biggest gap is, we need to have our radar up. Our eyes need to be aware that this is hiding in plain sight. Everywhere every single zip code in the state of Tennessee has traffic to survivors. Human trafficking in a lot of ways is about Nexus points like where things come together. And they're large populations of people. So we live in a wonderful city in Nashville, Tennessee, very cosmopolitan. People want to come here, but it also is the nexus of 4065 24 440 which allows people to come in and out very quickly and easily because of that, and other reasons. Of course, you have a high concentration of things that are happening underground. I was on Craigslist and saw room for rent for a female. So I emailed them, you know, they don't have anywhere else to go. I was really naive about it. And it turned out to be a trafficking organization here that preyed on usually women that had children. I wasn't the only one I tried to leave several times and kept finding me had nowhere to go I don't have family to take me and I don't have friends take me in our secluded. 17 years old was when the grooming process started in my life. I began trafficking here in Nashville, Nolan's Ville road. Dickerson road Murfreesboro road, I was in and out of the lifestyle for over 20 years. At in 2019, I had suffered a brutal assault from one of my traffickers was emotionally spiritually, physically broken. I had no idea that I was a victim. If you told me I was a victim, I would have told you I was that a victim of anything that I had been so brainwashed that I had believed for the past 20 years that this was my choice that you know, this was the only thing I was good at. This is the only thing I was ever going to be any good at. I was consumed by fear. You know, before I went into the life, I was a nurse and I was a mother but through my addiction all that fell apart. I lost my husband, I lost my nursing license, I lost my kids and then boom, I was sucked into traffic and like a leaf flowing down a river and boom there I was gone. The first event I came to with and he was at ethos church and hyped up on caffeine and my three piece business suit and my high heels stiletto shoes, like these people aren't gonna get me I'm gonna come in right and ready. And the first thing they did was say, you know, because my feet were killing me. You know, I can take my shoes off and they were running around barefoot and so I was like, alright, so I took my shoes off. That was my first point of vulnerability. I felt immediately felt at home and I immediately wanted to give back and wanted to do something because I can feel the love of The Lord and I can feel their love for survivors in that room. It sets me up for success. You know, like I am required to have a therapist every week I'm required to have a sponsor to work the steps I am required to meet and check in with my financial advisor. It's amazing for me like I'm living to for the first time you know that three years I've been sober rescued. And you know, like, when I first came to Nashville and started working here, like at the Corrie 10, boom, play, I remember crying, I was like, Is this really my life today? Am I really here doing these things and, you know, and I am full surrender to the Lord, but I love it. Today, now I'm able to be an advocate for those as receiving services through NIH T, we're on the frontlines. We're actually doing the heavy lifting for them and saying, Hey, man, we got you, if you will trust us and to walk alongside you out of the darkness. And in the light man will give you everything you need. Just say yes, we'll come right to you. If you hurt, and you're my sister in Christ, I heard I'm gonna be there for you when you're going through the valley of the shadow of death, because I know something about the valley, you walk through it, and you can come out on the other side. And I'm willing to go into the darkness back into the darkness from where I just came to bring others into the why. God just put an HTS number zero, really, God have we not connected for myself, because I didn't think there was hope I didn't think I was you know, there is an invitation in our community to be part of this team. And be part of this team and what we are doing so that we can keep the city of Nashville a city that people can feel safe in, that can raise their kids without fear in that can have a heart for humanity. And because they're seeing daily that there are things being done actively, to help penetrate the wickedness that a lot of people want to turn a blind eye to. So my invitation to people is don't turn a bond. Like we're, if we're part of a team, and every piece of that team has something to offer. That's what makes a great team.

Nicole Smith: 57:24

If you haven't guessed, Mary traveling was the head of that organization. And if you could only sit in this seat and see her glow with pride as she looks up at those women that she affects change. You're gonna make me cry to Mary Oh, you know, all the way she's in there. And I've met most of them. They're very, it's a powerful, powerful place. I got the opportunity to go and tour and I really would encourage you guys to do the same. Because what they're doing and NADH, you guys got a lot of letters. National anti human trafficking coalition is something that's really, really, really special. And it's really, really different. And so Mary's sitting on the other side, because she's a bookend, I believe, so I haven't walked through the path that that they have Mary hasn't either. But we've been touched by these women in a way that would activate our hearts to stand up and do something about it. And what you've done is very admirable. And she continues to stand up every day. I mean, I can't tell your story for you, but I can be your cheerleader. Like, I'm so proud of what you guys have created. So please, now tell us a little bit about your journey with becoming an advocate in the space.

Unknown: 58:35

Well, first off, I think it is Hello. Hello. Now, I'm thrilled that you're intelligence, your brilliant mind your great art and your passion for God and for the women. And the victims of human trafficking is pretty astounding to me. I've respected and I feel like I just thank you.

Nicole Smith: 59:12

Well, we spoke at one event at the same event a few weeks ago, and she spoke before me I just you know, had to say I didn't pay her to say all these things. It was like my script. It's like a handler we're in possession of God's immeasurable worth. Because we're Yeah, I was like, perfect. I was like, I didn't even pay her to say it.

Unknown: 59:33

I'm gonna build a wing on to NIH see? Exactly, but thank you. And then I think at some point, I think I wanted to go just take a kickboxing class and kill somebody angry me and I was like, Oh, I can't believe that that happened. And then I had just an overwhelming sense of like, just wow your brilliance in the way that you are using your skills and It was birthed out of a hard situation, and your tears for your family. And then the way you are going back into that space to make a difference is so respectful. I mean, I just thank you. And this is my daughter, and I'm going to call her adopted daughter, she's mine. You got

Nicole Smith: 1:00:25

this is your only daughter, you've

Unknown: 1:00:27

only daughter. And it was really interesting. I grew up in the church, and at the ripe old age of 22, at Vanderbilt, a junior in college, buried in a mound of guilt that I really couldn't talk about, because I was a good little church girl. I was depressed, I had the everything the world had to offer, but I had nothing. And I certainly knew at some point, I had made a decision in my life at that time to do something that I knew no one could bail me out of. And so I was desperate. Like you all were for a redeemer and a savior. That was bigger than I just didn't know who he was. Now, that's crazy. Because I was in the church. I had heard about God. I had heard about Jesus. I celebrated every Easter. I could recite. Creed's, I had read the Proverbs. I had read Proverbs, I could do that book. And I knew hymns and I sang them every Sunday. But I did not know Jesus. And I'll never forget reading a Corrie 10 Boom book. I went to bed one night, and the next morning woke up with my eyes wide open and undone by the beauty of this man named Jesus. And my life was never the same. Now I wasn't at the trap house, talking to people about Jesus and messing up their world. But I was at the SAE house at Vanderbilt, smoking a cigarette, still drinking that beer. But I was telling everybody at the casino table about this man named Jesus. And it was messing up the party too. We're never

Nicole Smith: 1:02:00

gonna hear it unless it was in those in those places that were unexpected. There was a reason for those six years. There's a reason for

Unknown: 1:02:08

Exactly, exactly. So fast forward, I married my husband, we had three boys. And we quickly got involved at Christ Presbyterian Church, we had a chance to send our kids to the academy, and we were in that bubble. But because God had transformed my life, the reason we were there is because we wanted more of Jesus. But I can tell you that over the course of time, as my parenting journey kind of was coming to an end, I was getting to a point where I was like an over watered plant. I had been in way too many Bible studies, I had been in way too many sermons, raised my hand and been led by some of the best musicians that Nashville had to offer. In worship. I was so spoiled spiritually. And I don't know if anybody in this room feels that way. But there's hope for you. Because I was at a Bible study one night and the Bible study later leaned into the audience studying, we were studying revelation, and she was talking about the lukewarm church. And she said, I want to end the study tonight. And with this question, when is the last time that you have been getting about Jesus? Now I teleported back to Vanderbilt, and I remembered, wow, God's grace was so amazing. And then I had, every morning I woke up, and I couldn't wait to be in His Word. And oh, my goodness, the thought of God's Spirit taking over my flesh was so thrilling. I was so excited about the new life I had. But it had become mundane in some ways. It had become rote. It had become just what we do. And the passion I had for Jesus was waning at that time. So I prayed a prayer that night, and I said, Lord, would you please, please, please, as my boys have left the house? Would you put me on the frontline of the advancement of your kingdom? So I could see you do some things that I know I cannot do. And be careful what you ask for. And, interestingly, that was about 13 years ago, and at the same time, I was praying that prayer. This girl was praying a prayer in solitary confinement in prison. God, please let me understand this Bible. So I don't know. I think God's providence is pretty amazing. How will we look back and see how that little prayer that I prayed that night was already in motion by God and being met with these beautiful women up on the stage tonight. I loved you before I've met you. So long story short, I grew up in Murfreesboro, Tennessee and went to visit my mom and dad and my brother and sister in law were involved in a ministry they were feeding the homeless children at the interstate. And the comment was made casually that the children were being trafficked at the truckstop. And I was like, Excuse me? And she's like, oh, yeah, you know that all those children that are living in that field behind the Cracker Barrel at the interstate? You know, they're trafficking those kids at the truck stop. Well, I don't know about you all, but I was very comfortable with someone coming to my church and telling me about what was going on overseas. Now, it was okay. I mean, I broke my heart, but it was over there. Now. Eggs. Exactly. And so all of a sudden, it was in my backyard, literally. And I said, Well, you know, we'll quickly we know people, I've lived in this community forever, you know, I'll just make a few phone calls, we'll take care of this. And I know irrigants run amok. That's when God said, you know, sit down little sister, I know, you think you're all that, but you're really not, you are going to need my power to be able to abolish this type of evil. And so I began this journey, and I served with several organizations. And that was something that I would encourage anybody in this room that's motivated, Ignite, find an organization and say, I just like to show up. And maybe you want to learn first, you want to learn more about what you've heard about tonight. Secondly, you maybe say, Okay, Lord, how can I engage? How could I maybe make a difference? What would that look like? And let me tell you, we need an army of people to, to really change the culture, and to really impact it with a biblical worldview that says, All people are made in the image of God. And that's where their value worth and dignity comes from. And God has an opinion about how we treat those people. In fact, he calls it an abomination to buy and sell people made in His image for profit and gain. So we really believe that in IHT that God is doing that. And so tonight, you might say, Well, gosh, what could God uniquely do in my life, where I can engage with this issue, and I can make a difference for the kingdom of God. And then you might say, well, goodness, okay, after I've now learned a lot, I've engaged in the issue in some way. Maybe God might bring someone in my life, who needs to hear my story of brokenness, and the hope that I have in Jesus, the great deliverer, the great Redeemer, the one who's restored your life. Maybe there's someone who has been touched by the human trafficking industry that needs to hear your story. And for you to earn the right as we talk about it in IHT, earn the right to introduce a victim of human trafficking, or someone who's been touched by that industry, TO THE REAL JESUS. Okay? The real Jesus, you talked a lot about the Great Deceiver. And there are lots of people who were the name of Jesus, quote, scripture, but have evil and dark motives. They are The hired hand, who's only in it for the money. And that's hard to say. But we have to say it because Jesus said it. Jesus told the church, beware of those who are going to come in in my name, but have a totally dark and evil motive. They're actually hired hands, by the, by my enemy, by the site by Satan, the great liar. So that's kind of a message to the church is almost to kind of wake back up in Christ, and get excited about renewing our minds in God's word, and remembering the once were story that we have, but God, and the new life that He's given us, and that's the hope we get to extend, because if God can do it in and through me, there's not a victim of human trafficking that we cannot meet and say, Gosh, I've got good news. I've gotten good news. Because if you did it in me, you can do it in you. That's my story.

Nicole Smith: 1:09:03

Well, and it's a beautiful one too. Yeah, I'm telling you, I didn't unimpaired to say these things. We're all in this together. And I love how powerful it is that we're speaking to enter the church. And like I was saying before, we're all being prepared to lead in the way with empathy, right? We all have our own stories. We're own journeys, sometimes of trauma that are very similar to these ladies up here. But the point is not to sink into that sadness and despair so much to lean into Christ, and allow this to generate something that's so beautiful healing for others that are going through something similar. And so if we look back at what we were, you know, talking about today, those three themes that I mentioned at the very beginning, for one first theme, it is slavery, no matter what it looks like to is the that we advocate in silos. But injustice doesn't exist in silos, there's so many of those domestic violence, you know, family, breaking down to the family, oh, list all of it that they talked about the themes tonight. And then the last one, obviously, the church has abdicated its responsibility. And it's very present and most of those stories that the church could have done something and here's the news, too, we are the church, not a building. It's the people we are the body of Christ. And we do have that divine calling that Mary was talking about, that we get to. And also we need to change our spirit towards get activate and care and see our brothers and sisters in Christ, for who they are image bearers. incredibly valuable and something to get excited to stand up. Look, I get to make a difference. What Satan meant for evil, I get to I get to lean into Christ, and we can make it something beautiful and this exciting, like, like Mary was saying to but we have like 10 more minutes. And I wanted to open up probably like three, three questions. This mic is open. So if someone wants to come up and ask a question, or if we don't want to do any questions at all, that's okay, too. But usually, it's just a nice opportunity to just hearing these stories, being able to lean back into like something that may have sparked a question that you want answered. So or I can bring the mic to walk up? It is a little weird. I'll be the first. Yeah. Oh, oh, she has to turn it on. Sorry. Yeah, we I guess we,

Unknown: 1:11:48

hey, I'm okay. You're you. So struck a chord with me, I have a nine year old daughter. And my husband and I, we have moved recently as well. But there's a lot going on in our family too. But I just it struck a chord with how to talk to kids at such a young age or to just be aware, because you don't want to, I don't know, say something that would open their minds up to something that's not Yeah, I don't know. It's just a delicate thing.

Nicole Smith: 1:12:21

So in our household, we call it like a layered spiritual discussion. There's so many more layers to addressing something so much tied to sexuality when you're nine years old and right, you have no clue and you're not supposed to.

Unknown: 1:12:36

Well, and my kids have bounced around the schools because of COVID. And there's just so many things. So how, what are other things, you started to talk about ways to talk to your kids or things that you can say that won't trigger them to because you're afraid of saying the wrong thing? And then they shut down? Or? And then you know, if there is suspicion, you also don't want to go? Like what is the best path if you feel like, oh, I have an inkling or there's something in my spirit that says something's not right here. But if I go tell them, and they're not trustworthy, then I tell the wrong person, it goes the wrong way. So I guess there's two questions there. So what what how can we be more aware as parents, especially with younger kids, and getting them to give you all the information that you need? And to if there is some sort of something that you suspect isn't right, what is the best avenue of going that direction? Without? Yeah, so. And I'm sure all these women will have great answers as well. But I hear you and I hear that question a lot. Definitely asking them more of the heartstrings type questions I feel like is important. Who do you like to play games with? Who makes you feel special? All of those things gets to the heart of the matter. Never should an adult man ever want to be alone with the nine year old little girl ever? Mainly because they know this day and age, anything could be said about them as well. So that should whether it's a children's minister, just saying I want your daughter to help me clean up after church, you know, every Sunday? No, I mean, as long as there's more people, that's fine. But no, sleepovers, guys phones, this is one of the things that I want parents to understand your child can be trafficked in the next room through their device, and you'll be right next door and have no idea because a predator has tricked them into sending a nude photo that then gets sold online. Your child's never been touched, but they just were sold. And that changes them. And so having conversations about safety and that one of the things I've learned through different people I've talked to is practice with your kid. Like maybe say like, Hey, you go in your room and say, Oh, I just got this Weird message, Mom Come here. And then you go in there and respond how you would respond in that situation. Whenever they see what your response will be, they won't be scared, if something actually happens, because they already know you're not going to totally freak out and blame them. So practicing I think is important. And then there's going to be signs of like self harm, suicidal thoughts. Isolation is a big one, just a change in behavior. And oftentimes, the kids aren't going to be able to tell you why they don't know why. And so, I mean, I would suggest counseling counselors are pretty good about not putting words into their mouth, but just trying to see what's going on with the heart. But you guys probably have other thoughts as well. Oftentimes, I see the Holy Spirit orchestrating conversation openers, like my youngest, just even today was talking about the story of Joseph, and how he ended up in prison. And so we talked about Potiphar, his wife, we talked about assault, we talked about tricky, guys, there's a book called No means no. There's also a book called good pictures, bad pictures. So you're talking about like, hey, if there's a predator, here's what you need to do to understand what are the signs education sensitive is like, you need to be available, easily emotionally accessible to your children, anonymity, busyness, things like that, in the family unit, it can take over if you're contemplating what is a good age to give my child technology, consider the question what is a good age to give them pornography, because they do have direct access to that. And that alters the brain wave states helps them to see intimacy as something that can be manufactured. And it's just a really down slippery slope and the downward Hill. Technology is a big one.

Nicole Smith: 1:16:58

Yeah, and I think culturally to this is something that I've I've said often is that our generation, we grew up without technology. And so we got this idea of Stranger Danger being a physical thing, or we were taught those things as children. So we, when we grew up, and technology became a thing, we were not replicating the same kind of messages, right. So now we have hover parents, when we hover, they never touch anything in danger physically. But then we hand a tablet. And the dangers have flipped and a very large way culturally, and to be aware of how to train your children in those ways, or even being okay with being the unpopular parent and not getting your child and the technology in the first place. And then scale up the technology use over time, because obviously, they're going to go to college eventually. Right? So how do you purposefully build up the awareness of how to use technology? Because as I tell my kids, knowledge can never be taken back? For good or for ill? It can, it will always be there. And it forever changes you. Gaming actually, yeah, gaming is actually a really big window. Yeah, that's good. Good point. We think that it's kind of safe. But that's a big grooming space to

Unknown: 1:18:19

Well, I just because they have a friend whose daughter was contacted through the Bible app. So I mean, there's messaging capabilities even there. So

Nicole Smith: 1:18:27

yeah, there's some of them that are actually hidden now to some of the apps have like a hidden feature that the kids know that they can use in order to message their friends. But how bad people know those things do. Do we have any other questions? We're getting close to the end. So if that was the only one that was really solid? Yeah, sure. Sure.

Unknown: 1:18:52

Good, good, good, good. Sorry. challenged. But one of the things too, I loved somebody said, you know, if it's the Treasury, they teach people to identify the fake by teaching them what the real dollar bill looks like, first. And so then everything else is just downhill. And so while I mean, to me it sounds like a whack a mole sometimes kind of like, oh my gosh, I've got to go but this out, I gotta put this out again, but this out. And it's it's endless, and it doesn't seem like I can actually get there. And so one of the things that flipped for me with my boys especially it was a kind of stop talking about all the things that were bad, and started inviting them into what is good. And why sex, you know, by God's design was to be between a husband and a wife

Nicole Smith: 1:19:43

joy instead of the shame. Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful thing. Yes.

Unknown: 1:19:49

So, you know, that is I think maybe a great place to start is to kind of for all of us to fall back in love with God's word. And to really go oh my gosh, I just like I love it. Christina when you start talking that I was reading about rehab. Oh my gosh. You know, had a track house and her kids were there too. And, well, gosh, and she ended up in the lineage of Jesus. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. So you know, it's like, do I read that story and go, Oh, my gosh, look at what God has done in the life of a beautiful woman who was very broken very river. And yet, I'll go back to the garden and go, Well, this was God's plan to begin with, right. And so I don't know, I just want to encourage parenting and grandparenting. I'm going to be a grandmother sometime in April 1 grandbaby? And I'm already praying, Lord, how am I going to be a great parent in this world? Am I going to just oh my gosh, gloom and doom, or I'm going to take because God has shown us what is good. Yeah. And let's start there.

Nicole Smith: 1:20:46

Yeah, and shame is a really powerful emotion that is put there by God for good reasons, so that it can deter you in some ways. But another common theme you're hearing is in the church is the sense of shame. Like this is a bad thing to talk about human sexuality, God made that it's not shameful. But there is a calling specifically for it. And in order to talk to your children about the joys that come with it, you know, my dad is here, like right up front. And I, the very first sex talk I ever had, I don't remember it, I was so young. And they were very, very happy for me when I got married cheered me on, I was like, not in the same room. But thank you for being excited for me, you know, but that was my husband. Yeah. But that was my relationship with sex as a child with my family cultivating a really beautiful picture of what it was supposed to be. So I was never even curious. And when you see the bad effects of it to where they did a lot of ministry work, that I got to see a lot of little little girls that were pregnant, very, very young, that were told that they were nothing but to be used. They were only sexual items. And when taught that they were a beautiful image bearers of our heavenly Father, it was a powerful, powerful movement. So again, the other work that these leaders are doing great, too. I really encourage you guys to lean into the materials here and learn more about these organizations. Because these leaders are amazing, and their mission is amazing. Yeah.

Unknown: 1:22:24

You know, I want to say something I hear a lot about, I do want to comment that I have seen the church rise up more in this day and age than ever, I the churches in given the fact that you guys are here, and that we and that there's organizations that, like I get paid to talk about Jesus all day long. It's the greatest thing ever, and inspire hope and people and that the people that come in our building, such as in some of you guys will be there to come see us soon, I hope. But that are coming to find out how they can get involved, the police officers who wants shamed me, and, you know, today aren't out fighting human trafficking and advocating, you know, the church's funding. We're watching the church rise up, and I'm saying MC, we're seeing a difference today than we did yesterday. And over the years where the church is really wanting to know how can they talk to their children? How can they you know, like a case in point our educator recognized Monty back there in the back. We went into Christ, Presbyterian Academy, a faith based private school and was able to bring education and awareness of human trafficking, the the horrors of the grooming, and through the video games and talk about porn in a Christian school. And so I know that I've I as much as I do want to say that I just didn't want to leave that saying without saying that, we are seeing a change. We are seeing you guys rise up. We are seeing you want to do something different. You're educating yourself, you're wanting to educate your children, you're wanting to make a difference. You're getting involved in organizations. You know, this lady in this organization changed my life. This is my mother, I'm talking about, you know, the mother wound and that rupture in our family, the Lord is restored through is through Mary and through this organization, and through you guys out here that are pouring your time in zoom, not only your family, but the word and in the other people, we are seeing it. And I just want to thank you guys for what you guys are doing and for the opportunity that we're even sitting on this panel able to talk about our stories and talk about the hope of Christ and inspire people to come up off of the pews and thank the ones who already have

Nicole Smith: 1:24:46

and know that it's pretty powerful stories that really really incite action. And so organizationally is dignity defense. We're really oriented towards telling these stories in order to activate the church in very meaningful ways to educate but also to activate as they say, so I want to close in prayer. But I want to thank you guys for being here and listening to stories and then going forth and doing God's good work some where we come before you today. And we really thank you for these powerful words and the powerful testimonies of these powerful women, that you uniquely enabled them to go forth and to do your good work and your name and your for your glory alone, Lauren, we thank you for these people in the audience to that you see them, you created them and your image, they have dignity they have worth, and even in the face of their own trauma, their own journeys of hardship, that they too, can rise up, stand to the left and to the right, and be activated and your truth and your wisdom and your Glory for Your glory alone, Lord. And we really want to be individual servants for your purpose, Lord, and that we can set our egos aside and we can realize that it's through you alone, that the solution to these injustices that we see today are created are found, because it's not through our works. It's through your revealing of yourself and your truth to your creation, Lord, and let everybody have safe travels home. And it's your precious thing we pray. Amen. Thank you guys have a safe going home and thank you so much for coming.